Code Monkeyism

Programming is hard by Stephan Schmidt

July 25, 2006

Moving away from Hibernate

One reason for me to move to JPA is to move away from Hibernate. Since being part of the JBoss ecosphere, Hibernate forums adapted to the spirit of the JBoss forums. There are other examples, but for one example see here. They like to be part of JBoss and not be part of JBoss just as it is most useful for them. Not when it’s useful to their users. With wrong information for their users,

“Hibernate does not use JBoss. JBoss uses hibernate.” -tenwit

Hibernate JPA uses the JBoss common jar, so clearly Hibernate uses JBoss code. The JBoss common jar bothered me too when using JBoss (?) / Hibernate (?) JPA. Otherwise it’s obviously a nice product.

Update: Some time after this post the thread on the Hibernate forum got activated again and a JBoss employee “debunked” Tenwit: “that code is most likely used by Hibernate Annotations and thus it is relevant.” Thanks.

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About the author: Stephan has been working as a head of development and CTO. He has experiences in different technologies since 20 years including Java, Rails and Python. Stephans main field of interest is maintainablity and productivity in software development. Want to know more? All views are only his own.

Comments

Emmanuel Bernard

I don’t really understand your concern?
The thread you describe shows a non JBoss employee claiming something wrong. I guess people make mistakes. Max (a JBoss employee and Hibernate team member) debunked him.

July 25th, 2006
stephan

Thanks for your clarification, I spoke about the community and forums, not the company (as Tenwit said for himself). And it wasn’t about the mistake just about the style.

Ah yes, going back I can read the answer from Max, it’s from today, one month after the last post. I hope the users come back to read this post or have notifications enabled.

Thanks
-stephan//cintoo

July 25th, 2006
Emmanuel Bernard

Damn, I didn’t see it was from today.

July 25th, 2006
Gavin

It really is quite amusing to see you point to a forum thread with no posts from any Hibernate team member or JBoss employee, in order to demonstrate how badly JBossified the Hibernate community is.

By the way, Tenwit is a really helpful and patient guy who provides lots of useful advice to new users. Everyone occasionally makes (in this case very minor) errors. You might not realize, but he was actually trying to help you out.

July 25th, 2006
stephan

Gavin, I’m honored by your presence.

I thought there was a difference between JBoss the company and the Hibernate community, so I can’t see the point why a community cannot be “JBossified” just because thr people who behave in some “JBossified” way are not JBoss employees.

> “You might not realize, but he was actually trying to help you out.”

I might realize this, although in a very strange way. The intention was there perhaps, but the style wasn’t. The user didn’t get Hibernate JPA working with Glassfish on Windows. Then the Glassfish community found the problem in the JBoss code. And as I pointed out, this was only one example I recently stumbled over when I tried to get JPA working, there have been other examples in the past. I guess there are always tradeoffs with decisions.

> “It really is quite amusing”

Of course this is amusing, otherwise I wouldn’t have a blog, would I?

July 26th, 2006
Big D

Stephan’s right. The hibernate forums and community are not helpful. They usually range from unresponsive to curt on a good day.

The docs are often inadequate or missing crucial information, (which is to be expected in a large product, I suppose, but the overall attitude of the hibernate team is that they users are supplicants who should be honored to be addressed by hibernate team in their precious spare time. Even when something is flat-out wrong in their product or docs you’re lucky to get a response.

They are doing quite well, acquired by RedHat and publishing books left and right, but persist in an attitude that they are giving away software for free which all the frustrated users should be happy to have access to.

I’ve been using their products for 5 years or so now, and every few months hit an issue that takes days or weeks to resolve, with the same attitude and frustration every time.

March 7th, 2008

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